tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17934023.post2167616929098643235..comments2024-03-20T12:28:00.031+00:00Comments on Liberal Bureaucracy: Strike Law: Is freedom only appropriate for people you approve of?Mark Valladareshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15773193846795037711noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17934023.post-29193779937901699272011-06-17T23:16:13.586+01:002011-06-17T23:16:13.586+01:00Tom,
In the nicest possible way, you do talk utte...Tom,<br /><br />In the nicest possible way, you do talk utter rubbish sometimes.<br /><br />I am not saying that public sectors workers should strike - having voted against myself, it would be ludicrous to do so. However, there are rules which restrict the right to strike, quite legitimate ones. Those rules have been adhered to, and the unions therefore have the right to call out their members. Not make them strike, because they can't do that. And you know something, I tend to respect the law, as it provides a decent enough framework to live by.<br /><br />And your young friend isn't suggesting to them that they shouldn't strike, he is suggesting that they shouldn't have the right to do so unless they obtain some level of democratic legitimacy that suits him. Now you rightly make the point that there is a debate to be had about the notion that all elections and referendums should have a minimum turnout. However, Leslie has not suggested that, you have, and until he does, his approach is inconsistent.<br /><br />I therefore stand by my statement that he supports differential levels of freedom, until he demonstrates otherwise. Unless, of course, you are Leslie Clark, which would indicate that the Liberal Vision contributor list is a fraud (and it isn't, is it).<br /><br />His understanding of modern trade unions (modern in relation to their 1970's predecessors, at least) and the way in which they work appears fundamentally flawed, a point which he hasn't denied. And I find myself wondering how much you actually know, rather than believe, about them yourself.<br /><br />And as for your last sentence, I wasn't aware that I had made law of the sort that you describe. I'm sure that I would remember if I had. Oh yes, I forget, I'm a member of the public, not an elected politician with powers of law-making.<br /><br />So, don't accuse me of double standards, as it merely indicates to me that someone who was first elected with the support of less than 12.5% of their electorate needs to be wary of doing so.Mark Valladareshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15773193846795037711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17934023.post-25292161195972657862011-06-17T14:46:37.750+01:002011-06-17T14:46:37.750+01:00I have to take issue with a couple of the points y...I have to take issue with a couple of the points you make in this article, Mark.<br /><br />“public sector strikes are bad because they make the lives of people like Leslie Clark slightly less inconvenient”<br /><br />That’s a very silly comment, and quite hypocritical. Whenever public sector unionists defend their jobs, they point out that they do important work and focus on all the people in real need that they help. Why is it that your response when somebody suggests that they should continue to do that work, instead of not doing it (which is, in its simplest form, the definition of a strike) is to suggest that it’s only “people like Leslie Clark” that suffer? <br /><br />If it’s only “people like Leslie Clark” who are going to suffer, it’s going to be a pretty ineffective strike as “people like Leslie Clark” may be happy to sit it out. <br /><br />“His inconsistent approach to democratic legitimacy merely serves to infer that freedom, in his view, only applies to those of whom he approves, and that is no freedom at all”<br /><br />I don’t think that Leslie has an “inconsistent approach to democratic legitimacy”: there is a perfectly reasonable argument to make that <i>all</i> elections/referendums should have a minimum turnout. Just how low does the turnout have to be before the outcome is illegitimate? <br /><br />As for suggesting that “freedom, in his view, only applies to those of whom he approves”, you’ve not only created a straw man; you’ve not even tried to make it look recognisable. <br /><br />Freedom is the right of any worker – unionised or not – to withdraw his labour, or not, as they see fit. The point that Leslie makes (and which you go on to deride) is that “introducing a minimum turnout wouldn’t drastically curb the fundamental right to withdraw one’s labour”.<br /><br />Of course, there are those, Mark, who really do think that “freedom ... only applies to those of whom [they] approve”, which is why they have simultaneously made it legal for the employee to break his half of the contract, but have made it <i>il</i>legal for the employer to break her half of the contract. <br /><br />If you’re looking for a double standard, you may want to start looking closer to home.Tom Papworthhttp://www.liberal-vision.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17934023.post-79650235155377916812011-06-16T15:44:51.016+01:002011-06-16T15:44:51.016+01:00Niklas,
Thank you for those kind words.
However,...Niklas,<br /><br />Thank you for those kind words.<br /><br />However, in HM Revenue & Customs, staff earning below £21,000 will get just £250, hardly generous, so they'll still be significantly worse off in real terms.Mark Valladareshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15773193846795037711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17934023.post-131479116217288292011-06-16T15:23:36.889+01:002011-06-16T15:23:36.889+01:00A very good post. I fully agree with your criticis...A very good post. I fully agree with your criticism of minimum turnout requirements - they give perverse incentives to opponents (as we saw when there was an attempt to introduce them for the AV referendum).<br /><br />In fact the Berlusconi media line on the recent Italian referendum was to try to get people to stay at home. That backfired: on 57% turnout, 95% of voters voted against the government line: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/13/us-italy-referendum-idUSTRE75C2VD20110613<br /><br />I would quibble slightly on the pay freeze though - for those earning less than £21,000 it doesn't apply, which does protect the worst off. But there are plenty of people above that line with very little spare money.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com